Signs and Symptoms of Depression and Thoughts of Suicide - Frank King

YBOP Intro/Outro: 00:00:06

Welcome back to Your Brain On Positive. All the love and support you need is residing inside of you. And we're going to make it easier to turn it off.

Jackie Simmons: 00:00:23

Why bob episode next, Jackie's interview with Frank King from the suicide prevention show.

Jackie Simmons: 00:00:31

This interview is being added to your brain on positive in honor of the nomination of the teen suicide prevention society. As a contestant on the change makers prize, one of the first phone calls that Jackie made after she got the nomination was to her friend Frank King. We're about to put suicide prevention on the map. And God willing will put suicide prevention programs out of business, because they won't be needed anymore. Enjoy the conversation. It's not often you get to talk to a mental health comedian about what's so funny about suicide. Welcome to the suicide prevention show, we are breaking the silence and saving lives. I am super excited that you're here I am the host, Jackie Semmens. And we are going to take you on a journey that might change your world. And I guarantee you it will not be boring. All right, here's the deal. Get ready. You get ready by doing some basic housekeeping. Turn off your distractions, unplug and plug in to what's happening today. You will also want to get a pen and paper there may be some things that are startling things that we're sharing things that you didn't know that you want to share. So get ready to write some things down. And as always, hang on. The ride gets more interesting from here.

Jackie Simmons: 00:02:03

Oh, yeah. Oh, join the speakers in the VIP lounge. This is something super special for you. If you are already a VIP in our world, that means a very inspiring person. If you're already a VIP, you know, you can interact with the speakers in the VIP lounge, you know that you are getting 1000s of dollars worth of bonuses. As matter of fact, our bonuses thanks to our generous speakers and partners, over $10,000 worth of value. And you get to decide what you want to contribute. So check out the donation page, check out all of the bonuses, and know that we have a lot more than our weddings are listed there. And join us and be a very inspiring person, claim that for yourself.

Jackie Simmons: 00:02:51

Welcome to the show. This is the suicide prevention show. And I am very, very honored to have as my guest today, someone you're gonna want to meet. His name is Frank king. And Frank has an amazing journey he's going to take us on. And he's going to give us some ideas from his perspective of the world, which is highly, highly unique. So Frank, would you please join me in the studio and everyone helped me Welcome Frank King cut up. Right.

Jackie Simmons: 00:03:27

All right. So Frank, I know that you have your own way of introducing the world. So I'm going to do something that people who know me don't think it's possible. I'm gonna mute. And I'm gonna let you roll with this. And we will go I'll come back in and then we'll look for questions in the chat to people can put questions in the chat. And I know Reverend Kelly's excited to be here. So anything you want me to say before I just give control to you?

Frank King: 00:03:55

Yes, I'm in the Advanced Sharing options, who can share all panelists who can start sharing this share? Okay, I click Share. There we go. Because I've got PowerPoint and everybody excited.

Jackie Simmons: 00:04:08

Everybody's excited. Not because you have a PowerPoint. No PowerPoints of them selves are not usually exciting. No, however. You are an exciting person.

Frank King: 00:04:21

Oh, I'm sorry. Forgive me. This is a slide I made for this actually. When Cool? Well, because I when I got into it, when I decided I was going to just be a suicide prevention speaker as I say in the speaking business Judo lane. I decided in January 1 2018. That would be my lane. And then regardless of what business you are in, what for entrepreneur you are, I believe you need to select your ideal clients, ideal customers. And so what I looked at was the top 10 At Risk occupations for suicide. The good news is dentists are not number one as everybody seems to think the bad news is they're solid number six or seven I'm consistently in the top 10. So dentists were my first first target market first ideal client, the people that I would let by yond. Have you guys read the book, Michael Porter, Book Yourself Solid. He says the only people you should be doing business with kind of like a high end bar, where they only let certain people pass the velvet rope. And he said eventually in your business, whatever it is chiropractor, hairdresser or whatever. The only people you should be doing business with are people who you would let beyond the velvet rope and then anybody else you refer to somebody who does exactly what they're looking for. So anyway, that's why there's a dental suicide prevention. I just did a three hour CEE for group endo dollars last weekend.

Jackie Simmons: 00:05:43

All right, so we're going to unpack CEE means you did a continuing education course. Here's what's interesting to me. And endodontist practice can get a continuing education credit can get credit for warning about suicide prevention, for their practices. I'm fascinated. It's like about time, yes, let's get ahead of this curve.

Frank King: 00:06:06

Well, and it was in the state of Washington, which by the way, is ahead of the curve in this way. Every health care provider, chiropractors, dentists, hygienist physicians, at cetera, in the state of Washington, have to have three hours of suicide prevention, see continuing education, CME continuing medical education, to renew their license. Wow, we that will spread to other states, other states recommend it for the professionals by Washington as a woman who lost her husband, I believe in attorney to suicide push to pursue legislation through and so that's why

Jackie Simmons: 00:06:42

One determined person. Yeah, I feel a lot. I mean, this is the only reason that there is a teen suicide prevention society is that my daughters and I got together and said, We don't want any other family to have to live through what we live through. Yes. So what's your story, Frank?

Frank King: 00:07:04

Well, people are watching listening. My slide if you're just listening, says the mental health comedian and below that. Suicide Prevention is a dental practice health and safety issue. So if you don't have video, that's why I had to go through that disclaimer. Treating the pain behind the smiles isn't the name of the keynote. If you are looking at the screen, the mental health comedian is up there the mental health comedian and the elephant the room, elephant in the room. That is when I speak is always wait a man and comedian talking about depression thoughts of suicide? How exactly does that work? Well, I think I'm a good choice three reasons. One, the original comedian in the world was the court jester. And the Court Justice job was to speak truth to power on behalf of the powerless with humor. I believe I speak truth to power or mental illness on behalf of those often power less in its grip with humor. Number two, I believe where there's humor, there's hope with there's laughter There's life that nobody dies laughing. And number three, depression suicide run in my family. My grandmother died by suicide. My mother founder, my great aunt died by suicide. My mother and I found her I was four years old. I scream four days, and April 10 2010. After filing a chapter seven bankruptcy and losing everything we've worked for 25 years of our marriage, I learned what the barrel of my gun tasted like. Or the alert, I did not pull the trigger. A friend of mine came up after a keynote recently he never heard me say that he thought it'd be funny. He goes, Hey, man, I can't we didn't pull the trigger. I go hey, man, can you try to sound slightly less disappointed. If you want to whine to not pull the trigger, it's in my first TEDx talk called a matter of laugh, la ug H or death a matter of life or death. That was 2014. The reason I did that was because as you guys were wondering, comedian suicide, depression, I had to rebrand from a funny speaker to a speaker who was funny. And so at age 52, on my first TEDx stage, I came out as depressed and suicidal came out in that nobody in my life knew that I was living with major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation, not my wife, not my friends, my family. So, as a matter of fact, my wife was about to play the video on YouTube a couple months later, and I said, Look, don't hit play yet.

Frank King: 00:09:28

There's a half a dozen things I need to tell you. I don't want you to learn on that video. See, people with mental illness oftentimes are great actors act as if nothing is absolutely nothing is wrong. I have a Screen Actors Guild card for a reason. I'm a great act.

Frank King: 00:09:41

Anyway, my next slide here is start the conversation when I was preparing for my first TEDx talk. What I discovered was that even though hardly anyone talks about depression and suicide out loud, although it's getting better If you bring up depression and suicide if you mention the words depression and suicide out loud, almost everyone has a story. I was doing a cruise ship. It was breakfast I was in the Lido couldn't find a place to sit. I saw a table for two empty chair. I looked at the woman. I pointed, she nodded. I sat. She looks up. She goes, Hey, he's a comedian. I go, Hey, did you enjoy the comedy show? She goes, I really did. I said, then I'm the comedian. She starts laughing because what would you have said if I told you that wasn't the comedian or didn't like show? I would say well, they tell me I look a whole lot like she asked me a question many cruisers asked is cruise comedy. All you do? I said, No. I'm a speaker. And if you don't mind me bragging, I just nailed down my first TEDx talk. She goes I love TEDx talks. What's the subject? Now I've had this conversation a number of times in the previous month, I believe they knew I was coming. So I said to her depression, and suicide and started a countdown in my head three to one. Sure enough, she said Frank, I tried to kill myself twice. She and I have just met I mean, she saw me on stage, but it's the first time we've been face to face in person. She goes first time was in college, not that serious, kind of half hearted second time, far more serious. She said I had graduated college, I graduated medical school. I had the knowledge I have the equivalent of the IV started in my ankle, suicide cocktail in one hands, arranging the other getting ready to loaded up. She said the phone rang. Do I answer these off? Well, I better answered. It might be someone who would worry, come over interrupt, picks up the phone. It's her 13 year old son. She goes I do not know if he had a premonition. Or it was something in my voice. But he said mom don't do anything. So I decided I would not do it. That day. I didn't give up on the idea of suicide, she said, but I decided not to do it that day. Because I knew if I did it that day, he would always feel guilty. survivor's guilt, when there's something he could say or do to stop me from dying by suicide. Well, the good news is there are things you could say there are things you can do. We'll cover some of that later on. I said to her housing now she said he's 21. I said, does he know his phone call saved your life?

Frank King: 00:12:24

She said, how do you start that conversation? That became my tagline that became the theme of that first TEDx Talk starting the conversation on suicide because if you bring it up, pretty much everybody has a story. Oh, and on that subject, my favorite Martin Luther King, quote,

Jackie Simmons: 00:12:45

I'm not familiar with that, quote, our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

Frank King: 00:12:54

Yes, and I believe silence in the world of mental health, mental illness kills. You hear people say all time, he never said anything. She never gave any indication. That here's a good news, let's just do a little good news jacket. Oh, the good news. Eight out of 10 people roughly on average, who are suicidal or ambivalent, they cannot make up their mind. Nine out of 10 who are suicidal give hints in the last seven days leading up to an attempt, which means the vast majority of people candy, say they want somebody to notice something and interrupt. The catch is you have to you have to be able to notice the signs and symptoms of depression and thoughts of suicide, what to say what not to say what to do, what not to do, and how to find resources. Again, we will cover those in a little conversation today. But the good news is a vast majority of people want to be saved and suicide is the most preventable cause of death on the planet.

Jackie Simmons: 00:13:51

Unfortunately, it's also the leading cause of death for young adults in the United States now, yes.

Frank King: 00:13:59

I think in the last in the, during the pandemic, the last number I saw was the suicide rate actually went down overall 1.5% the category in which you went up you just mentioned. So it's a bit of a mixed bag. The other the piece of good news in all that is the number of phone calls and texts to the Suicide Prevention Lifeline and text line jumped by hundreds of 1000s. So people are I guess, pushed by the pandemic actually reaching out for help. Every United States 8 million people roughly attempt suicide. One punch I think about attempting suicide 1.4 million attempt. And this is a number from 2019 47,000 complete suicide. That's one every nine minutes it's 146 a day that's a fully loaded 737 going in the ground like a lawn Dart every day and again, where's the outcry? Why on why are more people not talking? You're fine, it was my job. Yeah.

Jackie Simmons: 00:15:03

That's why you're on the show is because you are unafraid

Frank King: 00:15:08

to ever go somebody has to be unafraid to lead the freak raise my favorite big and rich song. Somebody has to be afraid to lead the freak brave. So that's my job, I get up on stage for a man to get up on stage, especially man, you know, big boys don't cry, toxic masculinity, all that and reveal that they live with mental illness, thoughts of suicide, I'd get on stage and let my freak flag fly. And what happens is almost invariably, it gives people in the eyes permission to give voice of the their experiences and, and thoughts surrounding depression and suicide. When I get done, almost always there's a line of two to 10 people who want to share a story, ask a question, look for resources. So some, and I hear things in that line that I know they haven't told anybody else. relatives, friends, family, you know, things they may have never shared. I'm gonna say I met a 69 year old guy who has chronic suicidal ideation. He didn't know that till we met. I'll tell you that story in a second. But he said to me, Frank, that's what I've got. They said that I'm 69 years old. I've never told anybody including my therapist. Well, he lives in California, if he if he admits to his therapist that he's ever thought of suicide. The therapist if, if he believes this gentleman, he's bound by law, I think, to drag him in front of a judge and try to get a 72 hour involuntary detention, or they call it a 5150 in California. That's why he's never told us there. So my job is to get up, let my freak flag live, give people permission to give voice to their feelings and experiences surrounding depression and thoughts of suicide. Now, I mentioned my TEDx talk. This is my favorite marketing guru, Seth Godin. This is what he says about TEDx. If you're looking for an idea worth spreading, which is the subject, that's the heart of a TEDx is an idea worth spreading. All you need is a tribe and a macro. My tribe is people who live with mental illness for whom the option of suicide is always on the menu as a solution. For problems large and small. That's chronic suicidal ideation. It's always from a solution to problems large and small. I example, a couple of years ago, my car broke down, I had three thoughts on bed, one, get a fix to buy new and three, I could just kill myself. I know that sounds absurd, but that is chronic suicidal ideation. The other side of that story is, and I tell it every keynote, and every train, that every time I've done a Keynote or training since 2014, there's been someone in the audience sometimes more than one who has chronic suicidal ideation or chronic suicidality. They do not know it has a name. They think they're just some kind of freak and completely alone. And he alone would come up to me after our college suicide prevention presidential. She said, Thanks for your keynote. Let's do all she said. But I gotta tell you made me weak. How did it make you wait, she said, you know your story about the car good effects by new and just kill yourself. Like, she goes, I'm gonna have those thoughts on my life. I didn't know. It had a name. I didn't know it was a thing. I thought I was completely alone. And when I heard you saying it out loud, I realized for the first time in my life, that I'm not alone. And I wept. That's the benefit of starting the conversation, dragging all that out of the sunlight and exposing it to the world is people like that. And that's happened every time I've spoken since 2014. I mean, the relief is palpable. They kind of feel like George Bailey and that movie, It's a Wonderful Life. I've been showing what what these people's lives might be like, if I had not simply been there to say, you know, you're not alone. And it's one of the reasons that I don't kill myself. Because if I did, I would undoubtedly take a lot of those people with me who never had a chance to hear me simply say it's a thing and you're not alone. So I will talk about talking about reasons to stick around near the end of the presentation. And the vacuum. We've already talked about the vacuum vacuum is was suicide prevention. Hardly anyone's talking about so we're out to fill that vacuum. That's me, comedy boy. That's a smile I paste on every day and most of the worlds if nothing is wrong, and most days, nothing is wrong, be it somebody will think if you're depressed and suicidal is 24/7 365 You know, if you're getting the therapy and your medication is working, and you've got a self care plan, and I do diet, I'm on the keto diet. I do intermittent fasting I have one meal a day every 20 to 24 hours. Exercise. I've been in the gym this morning already because the new Jack and I were getting together near the crack of dawn your Oregon by the way, and I And good night's sleep, which I got last night meditation twice a day, it's called catnapper. That's the name of that is guided meditation takes down brings you back up. And medication that's my self care plan. So if you're if you're listening and not watching, it's me in a blazer, Calvin Klein, great t shirt jeans cocked back in a chair, big smile, like, you know, nothing in the world is wrong. And again, most days, nothing in the world is wrong. And that's that that is my true personality, I don't have to put on the game face. Now.

Jackie Simmons: 00:20:31

Now I have to laugh. And I'm going to point out something else about your picture. Okay, it looks like in my world, we call it activating a connection, where your index finger and thumb are together. A lot of people use that as a meditation, we teach it as part of the four flavors of emotional energy, about to create connections to calming states of emotion. So I don't know you were intentionally doing that for that picture.

Frank King: 00:20:56

But that's just me being me.

Jackie Simmons: 00:21:00

That's up to you. I love it right.

Frank King: 00:21:02

Now, same day, my photographer said look like I've got a art project. I want some help with what it is it's it has to be a real camera, you know, single lens reflex, nothing digital, real film, and, and, and natural light. So I want you to take the jacket off, leave the great t shirt on come over stand by the windows, we get natural light. And what I want you to do is I want you to let something come through your eyes so that when it's hanging at the art show, and people look at you, they'll think Man, there's something going on back there behind those. So Jack for the first time in my life, I decided to let that part of my personality has been trying to kill me for decades come shining through. And with apologies to the Showtime series Dexter, which by the way, starts again on November 7. The 2021 If you're listening to this later on. With apologies to the Showtime series series Dexter, this is my dark passenger. This is the part of my personality has been trying to kill me I believe for decades. Now the only other time I've shown this to anybody I was I was auditioning in Portland for our role on an old show called Timothy Hutton. This con men and women who went straight into t y Oh, come on. Anyway, I'll think of about time we sign off. They wanted me to play my agent or me to audition for the role of an assassin. You know, a bad bad former CIA, MMA, whatever. And I mean, I'm 148 pounds sopping wet and the nicest guy you'd ever meet. Why he thought that was a good fit for me, I have no idea. But I decided I would go into the audition. However, I was going to wear the great t shirt Jean Jacques and I stopped by Big Lots on the way up to buy a kind of a badass looking pair of military style sunglasses. And I went into the audition. And I decided I was going to kind of Nicolas Cage the audition, I was going to get in character and I left my car and I was not going to break character for any reason, you know of the assassin until I got maximum I thought so I committed to it. And I go in and I don't know if you've ever done an audition. But there were two casting people standing on either side of the camera pointed to me. They read their part I give you know I do my part of the audition. Still wearing the sunglasses still letting this part of my personalities shine through. So when I got done reading, you know that scene with them. They said now now take the sunglasses off, do it again. So I cocked my head to the left and I simply went No. And they so thanks very much we'll be in touch. So stay in character all the way back to my car. My cell phone rings. I'm bright character I pick it up as my agent. I said hey, man to get the party goes now it's worse than that. I'm going to be worse than not doing the part. He goes I'm not sure what you did. Exactly. But you're banned from the building.

Frank King: 00:24:02

Why am I why am I banned for the building? Because you scared those two casting people so bad. I go What did I say that scared him. He goes That's the freaky part. I asked him that. And they said he said no. I said one word and I said no. Do we all see the irony in this situation? Oh yes. You know if you look like Liam Neeson or Dwayne The Rock Johnson and you know, it's an easy casting call. You look like me? nicest guy in the world. 140 pounds sopping wet. If if I scared you so bad you banned me from the building. Wouldn't you give me the part as the assassin? He goes, Look, if Quentin Tarantino had been been you know producing that episode, you'd be working the rest of your life for the choices you made the fact you didn't break character, but you know, he ended up dragging having to send them a comedy DVD of mine to prove to them that I wasn't that I'm only trying to kill myself that other people come up. Oh, there's my hand gun. That's an egg. plated 38 Which I still own by the way. It's that's the one I know the that's the one I know the taste of the barrel. That's what happened in April 2010. After I, after I lost everything in chapter seven, and you know what it was janky was burdensome this. People say, don't you think about the people you left behind? Oh, yeah, I was thinking about my wife. I had a million dollar life insurance policy. We just declared bankruptcy. I'm thinking I can fix this. Yeah, I can fix it with you know, very quickly. I go she's going to be brokenhearted. But she's not going to be broke anymore. She'll have a million dollars. something many people who are thinking about suicide think the world would be better off without it's an irrational thought very common. It's called burdensomeness. So from the inside looking out, it's almost a self less act from the outside look, Ananda if he was very selfish. So I certainly understand all that. I will look at that drink you know that that's my heart valve. These things on the I guess on the right of the screen or left of the screen if you're looking at the screen are they are if you can't see me on the podcast is listening. They are half a dozen titanium twist ties holding my chest you know my my chest together my ribcage together because I've had two aortic valve replacements double bypass that this is the second valve replacement, I got a double bypass the same day. The reason I put that up there janky is that's the day I had my heart attack. That's the closest I've come to dying since that time in the barn with the gun in 2010. I was out walking the dogs half mile of logging trail, just dogs and me and the heart attack hit and I knew exactly what it was. And because when I had valid problems if I just stopped moving, it would stop hurting but I stopped moving and it got worse. So I knew I was having a heart attack and had a smartphone on me but I have T Mobile so I didn't have Selzer that never fails to get a laugh. Anyway,

Frank King: 00:26:56

if I'd been in a bad place that day, I could have done a very socially acceptable that I could have sat down on the trail that the heart attack runs course. And nobody but the dogs would know that I chose to in my life they'd find me see signs symptoms of a heart attack. That's yeah, I had a smartphone ago. Oh, why didn't he? Oh, he's got T Mobile. But I was in a good place that day. As I said, a lot of people think is 24/7 365 I have more good days and bad. It was a good day. And I had three German Shepherd rescues when they are adult. And where I park there's 30 yards from that is a really busy road. So if I don't get those dogs back into the car, and secure, it is not going to end well for them either. So that was my only goal is to get the dogs back in the Toyota rav4. slam the door. And if I dropped dead right then fine. They're safe. People ask me, you know, always thinking as you're coming down the hill, having a heart attack because you're dying. The heart muscle is dying. You are dying. Did you see a light? Did you hear dead relatives voices and what were you thinking about? On the way down the hill? When I was thinking about Jackie was two weeks from that day was to be my first TEDx talk. And of course, the TEDx talk is on suicide prevention. I'm coming down that hill and I'm crying. Because I'm thinking if I could have just gotten to that TEDx, and then my suicide prevention, speech, Keynote, 18 minutes, whatever. Think of all the lives I could have saved, and I'm crying because I'm not gonna get a chance to do that.

Frank King: 00:28:31

Fortunately, I made back to the car, drove two miles home go in the house, y'all to my wife, honey, I'm having a hard time. This is what I heard. I'm in the bathroom. I gotta say no, and I can't hear you. What? I walked half mile drove to I'm gonna die my hallway. Spoiler alert. I didn't die. The paramedics game they transformed the hospital. And all in all ended well. I have three stents and I was home by it. That was Saturday morning home by Sunday noon. There's no shot, no red arrow right there. That's one of the blockages in my this is my grandmother fixing my mother's on her lap. My grandmother. This is 1929 She just lost her husband. She's got to get these three kids and herself through the Depression. And she did she got through high school and college and so on them all married and then she was winding down mentally as people in my family do. And so she ended a life my mom found my grandmother taking care of everything. She'd read the checks of the bills, address the envelopes, put them on the kitchen table. She had close all the windows and doors.

Frank King: 00:29:37

Pender wheeled to her house goats and my mother could find it easily. Turn on old gas stove but the pilot light and sat down at the dining room table and she wrote

Frank King: 00:29:48

this note.

Grandmom: 00:29:50

My dear children. I am so sorry to leave you but it can't be helped. All summer long. I have been going downhill. Doctors have done all they could But in spite of them, my nerves have gone completely shot. I can't sleep, I can't eat, and my mind is sadly unbalanced. Under such conditions life is absolutely unlivable. Be good and meet me in the glory land. Heavenly Father understands he has forgiven me and I know you will, too. Always my best love Mother.

Frank King: 00:30:24

And this is my great aunt sitting next to the gentleman with a with a white beard. And my mother couldn't reach her on the phone knew that she had glaucoma. My mother was actually preparing a mother in law suite at our house for her to come live with us because her vision was failing. But she was of the generation where didn't want to be a burden. Anybody in my mother knew that. So when she couldn't reach on the phone, she got panic, she'd let him into the car. They drove over let ourselves in and found my great aunt had died by suicide. And that's I was four years old. And what I saw what happened to me there and I'll, I'll spare you the details, because it's horror movie horrible, but it's in my first TEDx talk, a matter of life or death. I scream for days. And if you are already hardwired for depression and suicide, then you're that close to actual suicide. Chances, you know, the percentages go up, that you at some time in your life will seriously consider taking your own life. So as I said, runs in the family. That's another shot of her with the gentleman's hand on her shoulder before she died. This is what I think a lot of people with depression and thoughts of suicide do is they fake it until I think their life they fake it until they take it. I think Robin Williams, he was very forthcoming about his substance abuse, treatment and recovery joked about it at length never mentioned his what I believe bipolar disorder, given you know, the man who's manic episodes on stage, I'm just guessing I'm no clinician, but I'm guessing. And he and he was two years old. He had heart surgery, a valve job, which can be depressing. I think he had Parkinson's like ailment that was progressing, which was affecting him physically, and also his memory. And I think after 62 years, he just wanted the pain to stop. That's why people ask me, why did Robin Williams kill himself? So chances are he didn't want to kill himself. I didn't want to kill myself. Most people that I'm aware of, do not want to kill themselves. When they die by suicide. They simply want to end the pain. This is a quote from him, I think on fresh air with Terry Gross, yeah, this is surely before he died. If you listen carefully to this interview with Terry Gross. And if you can't see this, is life is not for everybody. And that's Robin Williams speaking in an interview with Terry Gross on NPRs, fresh air not long before he died, was this a hint that he was going to end his life? It is entirely possible in my mind that it is empathy. That's the tough one to come by Brene Brown said that sympathy is feeling sorry for you. Empathy is feeling sorry with you. And she said something that I've said many times in my keynotes, although I didn't ever say it quite as eloquently as she did. She lives I guess, with a mental illness. And she said, and I believe this to be the case with me as well. She said, I am so comfortable. Sitting in my darkness. I can sit comfortably in you with yours. Somebody asked me yesterday, doesn't that, you know trigger? you depress you, whatever, to spend time with people who are you know, in similar situations? No, I find it very therapeutic. Because, you know, in most cases, I suppose I'm actually helping someone, maybe steering them far enough off the path of suicide to live a normal life. So no, it doesn't trigger me as the opposite effect. I find it very therapeutic. Now let's talk about the signs and symptoms of depression, thoughts of suicide, because that's the key, I believe to stopping. Because if eight out of 10 are ambivalent nine out of 10 give hints So depression, but you're looking for it well, eat too much can eat sleep, do my cannot sleep. Let their personal hygiene go. Something you can even observe on Zoom and log on Zoom and I'll send you think, here's kind of dirty clothes and not quite so clean. And maybe there's a Can I drag themselves out of bed in the morning to run a little wash and hit challenge. Here's one half trouble getting out of bed in the morning being on time. Rally in the afternoon. That's a very that's why I say one of the top three symptoms you could drag yourself out of the bed. Now what do you say to somebody who's depressed? Here's what you don't say. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, turn that frown upside down. Can you try joy? Listen, with joy. If you're not talking dishwashing liquid, I think I'm out of luck. Here's what you do say. I'm here for you. And I mean it. I know you're not lazy, crazy. You're self absorbed. I know that depression is a mental illness. Here's the good news with time and treatment, things will get better. I will take the time I'll help you get the treatment. Now here's is the next step and difficult for pretty much everybody, you need to ask them just like this. Are you having thoughts of suicide? If you can't ask that question, you find somebody who can. Because if your gut tells you they're having thoughts of suicide, go with that, find somebody you're gonna ask. Now, let's say they don't, they're not forthcoming, but you still think in your gut, that they're circling the drain. How would you know? Well, they talked about death and dying, they Google death and dying, doesn't line up, here's in their, you know, in their artwork, music writing, gathering the means to Dallas suicide, whether it's purchasing a firearm or stockpiling medications, getting their personal affairs in order, especially giving away prized possession, because they want to make sure their prized possessions go to the people they want them to go to when they're gone. And if you give away a pet, that's the top of that, you know, prized possession and give away that's extremely dangerous. Now, here's one that I think it's dangerous. Because it's really hard to say what they've been depressed for a long time. And then you notice they're happy, really happy, for no apparent reason. And you're happy because Lord, they're finally at? Well, they could be happy because they have chosen time, place and method. And this is gonna sound very familiar. They know the pain is finite, it's coming to an end. That's why they're happy. So what do you say? If you believe somebody is suicidal? Do you have a plan? If they have a plan, what is your plan? If it's detailed to time, place and method, you get them on the phone with a Suicide Prevention Lifeline, or texting the text line 741741? When you call the cops, if they're in immediate danger to themselves, or others, you have no choice but to call the cops. Now, let's say they are suicidal, that the plan is not that well, for the time, place and method. What do you say? Well, this is not a textbook anyway, something a psychiatrist and I came up with, you say to them, Well, tell me are you going to kill yourself? And if they say no, then say, tell me, why not? Make them give voice to whatever's keeping them here, friends, family, animals, whatever, make them give voice? And if you ask me, Are you going to die again? Are you gonna kill yourself? I would say no, I'm not going to kill myself. And then you say, why not? Well, I've already told you because I would take a lot of people with me, I think, who never got a chance to hear me speak. Another reason is my mother and father wanted children desperately. This is in the mid 40s 1940s, early 50s before in vitro, and they weren't, they tried to adopt, but there were many infants available. So they just added, you know, go into the old fashioned way. My mother got pregnant carried his term. And it died shortly after birth. A year later, she got pregnant again, she carried it to term. And it died shortly after birth, where she found the courage to try again, I I don't know she the bravest person I've ever met.

Frank King: 00:38:01

So she tried that third time I was born a fourth time my sister was poor. So here's why. Here's one of the reasons why I don't kill myself. Because my mother was so brave, and worked so hard to bring me here. That I have to be as brave and work as hard to stay until my appointed deck.

Jackie Simmons: 00:38:24

There you go, Why stay? Now your empathy slide is still up. And that's an amazing quote. And I love that you shared the Brene Brown story. They come because most people don't know that she struggles with mental wellness. I mean, it's not something that is well known or talked about, because we don't talk about things like that imply. And that's why I like talking with you, because we can talk about it here.

Frank King: 00:38:53

Yes. There we go.

Jackie Simmons: 00:38:57

So they go what got it all straightened out now.

Frank King: 00:38:59

Yeah, has kept my lab going at blacktail going back and forth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I

Jackie Simmons: 00:39:03

figured you had an animal in there somewhere. Yeah.

Frank King: 00:39:06

No elephant that would have been much more painful in the lab.

Jackie Simmons: 00:39:09

It would have been very painful in the lab. I mean, elephants cannot be ignored. We can manage a cat. That's pretty

Frank King: 00:39:15

true. But I've got nine of them. So it's a full time job. Well, nine of them all rescues people with out of the country and people have done them out here. And you know, neighbors call Hey, somebody just dumped a bike and white cat. Get your live crap out. Nine Dan, what's the difference?

Jackie Simmons: 00:39:36

Reaches a point where it's just a full time job.

Frank King: 00:39:38

Yeah, and I'll have better health insurance than I do, by the way.

Jackie Simmons: 00:39:43

Hey, yeah, I hear ya. Funny thing about that break this commentary, okay, you have shared a lot of information in a very short period of time. I'm going to invite people not to sneeze but actually specflow safe, put it in into the chat. What is it about having that conversation that holds you back? Because right maybe between the two of us, we can get a few more people talk.

Frank King: 00:40:12

There's a stigma associated with mental illness. There's a separate stigma attached to thoughts of suicide, you know, scares neurotypical people. They don't say anything because a they don't know what to say. Or B, they're afraid they'll say the wrong thing. There's an old urban legend. Never mentioned the word suicide in front of somebody who's depressed. And as a comedian, I do love the reasoning, because you might get the idea suicide. What a great idea. Why didn't I think of that? Just trust me, the mind. Don't worry

Jackie Simmons: 00:40:44

about that. That urban legend kept me from having an honest conversation with my daughter, my middle daughter, oh, boy f&e for over 20 years. Oh, my Lord. And I was so scared of putting the idea back in her head after her first attempt when she was 14, and her next attempt, and her next attempt. And when I stood on the TEDx stage, actually, when I finished writing my TEDx script, and I realized that I was afraid I would put the thought back in her head, and she had survived for teen attempts. Oh, at some point, you would think that I would have gotten it figured out that she had the thought. It's still shocked me, when on August 3 2019, she stood up and gave a short talk and share that she still struggles with suicidal thinking. And I'm like, what? Yeah, our ability to believe what we believe our ability to not see what doesn't match our belief systems is so huge, Frank, no matter how many times I've read that CDC guideline of these are the signs and the symptoms. So look for my own brain wouldn't let me see what was happening right before my eyes. We're the people we care about the most or at the most risk, because we're not going to see it. So having the talk is more and more important.

Frank King: 00:42:17

Yes.

Frank King: 00:42:19

And making people comfortable by coming out and sharing it is my job. I've been told by 95% of the clients I speak for. We just brought you in here to start the conversation on Tuesday. It does. I mean, it opens up that can of worms. And you know, people come out of the woodwork that are struggling and they go to HR, you know, let's pull out the was an employee assistance program. See what kind of Yeah, so it's, it's just a matter of see a man starts conversation and talking about, you know, things emotional?

Jackie Simmons: 00:42:50

Well, yeah, well, I mean, I know the myth that men don't cry and all of that. And it's such a myth, and a creates so much damage to think that you have to hide it inside. But it's not just men who do that women are great at masking.

Frank King: 00:43:05

Oh, sure. And three times as many women attempt as men, men tend to complete because they use a fire.

Jackie Simmons: 00:43:10

You know, we're gonna slow that statistic down, because you just ran that right over, say that slowly. So people get it.

Frank King: 00:43:18

Three times as many women attempt suicide roughly four times as many women as men, men tend to complete the suicide because they use a firearm.

Jackie Simmons: 00:43:28

And that's one of the biggest pieces of information that creates problems, I think, for people reaching out for help. Because this statistics, most of the time are only tracking those who died. They're not tracking those who tried. And that's why it's such a mess with who needs help. And the answer is we all do.

Frank King: 00:43:50

Yeah, man, I think, yeah, 10 people who die by suicide in the US, on average, currently, our men, mostly age 4554. And they don't just not reach out about things mental health, they don't reach out about, you know, they wait too long when they get a lump in the testicle or they've got chest pains or they don't get a PSA tests, or they don't have a colonoscopy. I've had several friends in the last year die of prostate cancer and colon cancer and there's no reason for that. If you have if you have your PSA every year and you have your colonoscopy every five or 10 then they catch those polyps early pull them out, keep an eye on you. And you know, men tend not to you know, cuz tough or tougher, tough guys, we don't you know, I've had friend of mine drives in a doctor and 25 years only one question for you, next of kin.

Jackie Simmons: 00:44:43

Gosh, it's, you're gonna call that suicide on the American plan? Yes. Okay. It's the John Wayne, tough guy, Clint Eastwood, you know, it's a bragging right that you have not been seen by a doctor. I really don't care whether or not you see a doctor. I do care whether you are seen by a doctor, slight difference, I can run into my doctor and see him in the grocery store is not going to do my health and he got power of this to help break that stigma to break. It's like, well guys, what is holding you back guys and gals will use the generic. Hey peeps, what's holding you back from putting yourself in the center of your own life and taking care of yourself? We've actually branded it as putting your own emotional oxygen mask on first. And that means taking care of you

Frank King: 00:45:33

first. Yep, but you know, guys, that's why that's why we wrote the series of books. That's grit in the grind a mental mechanics manual because there was no such thing my my co author went looking at Barnes and Noble brick and mortar and then Amazon online and could not find a book this specifically on men's mental health. So we just survey, man, what do you want? What kind of help do you want in the way of a book. And they almost overwhelmingly said, We want Stories of Real Men with real problems. And now they're really coping. And so each book is a dozen guys, each one has a different problem. And then how they're coping, and there's exercise is truly a man. That's like a mommy owner's manual. There we go. And they the two co authors lived me in to add the humor, and also the automobile metaphors. And Book Three is out. Now, first three are all on Amazon, if you'd like a copy of the first one for free, I think he

Jackie Simmons: 00:46:30

got that link for them. I am so excited. I mean, come on, guys, what's better than getting a free book on this topic that you can give to your guy, if you're a guy, this is for you. If you got a guy, this is for you. If you think you might know a guy, this is for you, it's a great gift.

Frank King: 00:46:49

Right? Well, and oddly enough, visa vie Are you know, going along what you said most of our sales are to women, overwhelming. They've got a guy in their life, brother, father, husband, whatever, who's struggling, and they have no idea how to help them. So they buy the mental mechanics manual. And it's got advice in there on signs, symptoms, resources, what to do when not, you know, so forth and so on. And, and, and it's an audio book that's free as an mp3. I narrated as underbridge before I was in change the first book, eventually all four will be up there. I'll narrate all four, but the one is up on, you know, in your prize package.

Jackie Simmons: 00:47:30

And we've go.

Jackie Simmons: 00:47:32

Yeah, I'm reading the title, guts, grit and the grind a mental mechanics manual. Now, did you have anything to do with that title? Or did they had that title before they looped you in?

Frank King: 00:47:44

Oh, no. I had somebody with a title. And then we all agreed to make it look like a non burial owner's manual. And a comedian friend of mine, who's a great artist did all the covers and all the illustrations inside and he lives with mental illness or two. So it's, it's yeah,

Jackie Simmons: 00:48:00

we're not even going to go I'm sure somebody has this. That statistic. How many comedians also live with mental illness?

Frank King: 00:48:11

Well, a friend of mine used to have a say, he passed away by natural causes, but he said there are two kinds of comedians diagnosed and undiagnosed. Wow, there we go. Okay, the TEDx talk. My third one, mental health. Mental health benefits the evolutionary advantages of mental illness, because I kept meeting so many talented people who are also living with mental illness. So I decided that can't be a coincidence. So I did some research and did a TED on and I said the audience were those of us living with a mental illness or not living with a genetic mutation, but an amazing evolutionary adaptation. And then why have mental illness is, as Malcolm Gladwell says, in his book, David and Goliath have such things a desirable disadvantage, you never wish it on anybody. However, it comes with certain advantages. And I said, the eyes look, I don't think I'm broken. I think I was made this way. I think my comedic ability, imagination, creativity is simply the flip side of my depression, thoughts of suicide because it's the same brain, same wiring, same thought processes. I just kept meeting comedians and actors and singers and writers who are living with a mental illness. And like I said, I couldn't believe and turns out there is some evolutionary. If you go back far enough, let's say cavemen and women. anthropologists believe they were pretty much all by poll because they had four months in the summer to gather enough stuff to the last eight months in the winter, so they had to move. And they were hypersexual, because they had to keep the numbers up in the truck. And come when the days get shorter and the nights got colder in the fall, they would slip into a depressive state and stay there. Birth of children got to keep him alive until spring Monday's began to get longer and warmer and then they go back into the manic phase. So that's come forward since so what we think of as mental illness is now We're back then perhaps survival skill.

Jackie Simmons: 00:50:03

You know, I absolutely agree with you, I believe we all have one common ancestor, his name is AWG. I use him in my talks to help people understand all the physiology that happens when we get triggered into fight or flight. And I use them to explain what I believe is the evolutionary history of depression, because that's certainly what was true for me. And as a two time survivor of clinical depression, I can tell you, that fear was somebody said, You Yohe and people talk to you about suicide well, that you like not trigger you back into your, like, I lived in the fear that that would be true that if somebody who was depressed if I was around them, that that would knock me back into that black abyss. Okay, here we go. Right. I wouldn't talk to my family if they were down. And I wouldn't work with a client who was struggling with depression or down. I was a stress management consultant. This was not good for my business.

Frank King: 00:51:10

Yes. Yeah.

Jackie Simmons: 00:51:12

But we do we believe these myths that we can hear that it's contagious that we could put the thought in someone's head. None of this is true. Talking about it, verbalizing it, getting it where you can get it outside of you and look at it, we call it naming the elephant in the room is a sound process that allows your brain to recognize the difference between what you're thinking and who you are.

Frank King: 00:51:40

Well, and as a speaker, who loves to middle Alice's serious mental illnesses. For the audience to see me on stage. Everybody has an idea of what mental illness looks and sounds like and as you do that down the corner with a sign we're working for, which is basically stage four mental illness, this system has failed them all the way down the line. But to see somebody who's high functioning and joking and speaking and whatever on stage, it changes perception. And that can change prejudices. It can reduce stigma and bullying and eventually suicide. If you understood there's a great program called stand up for mental health. You have to be a you have to have mental health diagnosis to get into this comedy class. And you have to have one to teach it. And then six weeks, they have an graduation ceremony, invite friends and family and the general public. And all these people are doing comedy based on their mental illnesses. Again, people are terrified of public speaking, but imagine public speaking and you're mentally ill and you're talking about it. So people are just fascinated. You guys, yeah. Yeah.

Jackie Simmons: 00:52:45

changing perception. That's gonna be the title of all the comments on this talk. Right Hank, thank you so very, very much for being you for being here and for being willing to help everyone break the silence. And yes, we will post all of the links everything will go up on the show notes if you're watching this, check the show notes. If you're here live check the chat. Frank, thank you for being you.

Frank King: 00:53:13

You know Jackie, there are many people I would get up at eight o'clock in the morning for but on the way out here on the west coast, but you are one of them.