The Collision Between Nature and Nurture - Karen Comba

YBOP Intro/Outro: 00:00:06

Welcome back to Your Brain On Positive. All the love and support you need is residing inside of you. And we're going to make it easier to turn it on.

Jackie Simmons: 00:00:23

Welcome to your brain on positive. And today we are not just recording a podcast, we are going live with this amazing interview because Oh my, when it comes to the argument about what's more important in a child's life in an adult's life, what's more important, your nature, how you were born, your genes, your genetics, your birth gifts, or your nurture, how you were raised your environment, your caregivers, the community and culture to help us sort this out, and we're going to talk about the collision that she lived in. We're not where worlds collide. But where this whole argument becomes irrelevant. Please help me welcome Karen Comba. Karen, I'm so excited. You're here.

Karen Comba: 00:01:19

Thank you. Thank you, Jackie. And thank you for having me. This is honor to be with you today.

Jackie Simmons: 00:01:24

It's going to be a lot of fun. So let's talk about what's so good about nature versus nurture. How did that whole argument come into your world?

Karen Comba: 00:01:38

The argument came into my world, Jackie, by watching other children, you know, as the start at the age of four, when my mother first pattern, first nervous breakdown. But as a child, you have no idea. You do not know what's happening. And people aren't really telling you, you're just living this. And I would go to school and I would watch other children. And it was like I knew their their normal wasn't my normal. Got it. And,

Jackie Simmons: 00:02:12

you know, we're going to pause for just a second because so many people are go, Well, yeah, I was that way. I never felt like I was in sync. I never felt like I was in step. Right. So everything has this degree of it. Most of us are not clearly aware at the age of four, that there's something that it's like, what they talk about doesn't make sense, based on what I know.

Unknown: 00:02:41

Right? What did you know, I knew that I could sense that in my mother's face the started of the disconnect, the disconnect of love. I wasn't being hugged. I was finding myself at kindergarten running running to the teacher because for some reason, she hugged me every day, and I wasn't getting that. So I right away knew as a child, how good that felt to get that hug every day. And knowing that I wasn't getting it at home. I didn't understand it. But I knew that I felt it. And that's how the feeling started when I was young. And then as it progressed, it was quite different.

Jackie Simmons: 00:03:24

Got it. So you ended up growing up in an environment that was out of sync with what you saw other people living?

Unknown: 00:03:34

Right, what's the biggest point that I start with my speaking Jackie is, you know, you're supposed to love your parent. That's a Mother Nature. That's your nature. You're born into this world knowing you're wanting to love this mother, father or guardians. And my expressed my expression to people is I knew I was supposed to feel that way about my mother. But at the same time, I feared her. I was terrified ever. I was disconnected from her. So that was an imbalance inside my body that I wasn't feeling I knew what I was supposed to be feeling but I couldn't feel it.

Jackie Simmons: 00:04:19

You know, that's probably one of the most pointed explanations of the experience of mental illness. And the reason that I call this episode The collision between nature and nurture, is because as someone who dealt with depression, I experienced what you just described. And what I didn't know until this moment is that the people around me who cared about me, were experiencing the same thing. The disconnect, I thought it was only my experience. I didn't know it It could have that around me because it was your mother's descent into darkness, which is what most people would resonate with, I hope on the description of mental illness. So the lack of mental wellness, the lack of optimism, the lack of hope, however, it shows up the lack of consistency in how someone shows up in the world, we will call that lack mental illness for this purpose, that work for you. Yes, it does. Cool, because the clinical diagnosis can be very confusing for people. It is. It is, it is because it's like, I don't care what you call it, can you fix it? Yes. Did your mom ever seek professional help?

Unknown: 00:05:47

My mother had nine nervous breakdowns, she would, my dad always took her to doctors. Back in the day, she had electric shock treatments, she got to a day till she had 50. And so she was constantly underneath the care, she would come back to us for a while, if you will. And then it would happen again. And over and over again until finally, as I stated in my book at that, when I was 29, my mother committed suicide.

Jackie Simmons: 00:06:18

Power of that. And so the pause, guys is just for those of you who know, I'm also part of the teen suicide prevention society. And we believe that the purpose for our existence is not to take suicide off the table as an option. But to make sure that there are other options on the table. Because what we found is the only reason someone takes their own life is because it's the only option they can see at that moment. Absolutely. From that experience, at 29. When did you write your book,

Unknown: 00:07:02

I wrote my book, it actually got published Jackie, this year, March, but I've been writing it for the last 12 years. And people that will understand I grew up with a mother with schizophrenia. It when my mother died when I was 29 is when, if you will, my light bulb went on thinking this can't just be me. This has to be other children millions before me millions after me. And I just knew at that moment, 30 some years ago that I was going to write this book and that I was going to need and help children, I have to make a difference. And I know it's going to take a village. But I knew that the only way that people would understand that I knew what I was talking about was to write the book and to get it out there and be raw. And as raw as you get. And I was I published in March this year, the snipers we couldn't see is the name of it.

Jackie Simmons: 00:08:02

Okay, well, that that we're gonna slow those words down. The snipers, you couldn't see. We couldn't see. We couldn't see, okay, these snipers, we couldn't see. Yes, that's an amazing title. So as an author, I'm gonna unpack where that title came from in a minute. So we'll come back to the book and the title. All right, you wrote the book because of this need to make sure that you were seen as credible as you reached out to make a difference? Yes, absolutely.

Unknown: 00:08:34

I knew that. I couldn't protect my family, my husband, my children, I would have to be as truthful as it gets. Which I did, it took a while because I would have to shelve it. Mentally to get through this 12 years of writing it I had to I had to literally to keep myself and to my own soul and my incredible life that I'm living, which is always life is a gift. I knew that in order stay balanced for my children and grandchildren, I and my husband I had to once in a while, put it up for a little bit, and then bring her back down. Five years ago, I said that sit, she's coming down the shelf and she's going to stay. So here we

Jackie Simmons: 00:09:20

are. So here we are. The beauty of this is what you want to do now, now that the book is published now that the book is out. Now that the foundation has been laid that says this is what living in the collision. Yes, this clash of people trying to label things instead of dealing with what the experiences Yes. So that's our point today is what can we do more if we let go of

Unknown: 00:09:57

the labels? We let go the label's Jackie, I feel this. This is my reason. And my mission and my calling, if you will, and I feel I do feel like I was chosen. I felt like if our family went through that there had to be a reason more than what was and I wasn't just gonna let it lay down. My goal is this. As I'm meeting people, I was very honored that Wally lamb endorsed my book right away, and Jim Fay with love and logic, and then I knew, I knew that it was there. And my goal is this. As I'm meeting all these wonderful people, I would love to get a village put together of people from all walks of life. And we create this program that we can implement into schools and give the opportunity for schools to put it in where the children have to take this class, seventh and eighth grade, if you will. And this is my dream, we'll see if we can't pull it together. Where they're educated about mental health, call it something different, but call it something that children want to go into. And for all different reasons, whether they're experiencing it at home, or they're feeling it themselves, or they have a friend that has it, the kids are resilient. If I would have had someone sat me down at 13 The gift I would have got by them and explaining to me what my mother was feeling and going through what it taken 5000 pounds of pressure off my soul. And I would have lived and thrived. I'm one of the lucky ones, Jackie, I'm one of the lucky ones. And I know that a lot of the children that grew up like myself, with their now on addiction, they're homeless. They might be in jail. They are might be settling in life, just not thinking they're worthy of being anything. When we could have missed, we might have missed out on the best waitress, banker, mailman, whatever. But that child does not know it because they didn't. I didn't receive any help. And I know they're not getting that. You know it right?

Jackie Simmons: 00:12:15

It's an interesting thing that you bring up, because Middle School is fraught with ups and downs and challenges. And I absolutely do not believe in coincidences, a quote came across my phone this morning that said, you know, when you try so hard to be like everybody else, you're actually destroying the creation that is uniquely you. And yet at that age, we try so hard to fit up. Yes. And when you've got all of the hormonal rages anyway, fitting in isn't possible, because this is when you're also exploring how you're different how you're separate how you're unique. And when you add that extra layer of angst around. I don't have a life like you do. It's, it's like, Hmm, maybe we need to start earlier. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:13:18

I'm thinking earlier, I don't know if they're, you know, I think this will lead and to whatever it needs to lead into. I would appreciate, you know, that is where the village comes in. And

Jackie Simmons: 00:13:32

Alright, so we're going to put a call out to the village, we're going to create a new version of village people. Yeah. So here's, here's the deal, everyone. What we are looking to do is come together, collaborate, you can pop things in the comments, let us know what you think. Because I'm thinking about yo, seven of these kids born into darkness, yes, would be a name that would resonate with them. And but not all of them. You know, we went through this whole naming process at the teen suicide prevention society and finally ended up calling what we do to helping people stop helping people get out of emotional cage fighting. Yes. And when the first person who suggested that name to me that this is what we're dealing with is emotional cage fighting that mental turmoil. I'm like the cage fighting is so brutal. And they looked at me and said, Jackie, so is suicide. And I realized that that's exactly what you're talking about. Because on the outside, there's nothing to see no one can tell by looking that a child is living in that collision, where nature and nurture pop off of each other and things go wrong. And what we consider normal parenting doesn't exist what we consider Are, the connection between child and parent does not get a chance to thrive? Absolutely. And you can tell by looking if a kid is living that. And yet 99% of the training for teachers is on how to identify kids at risk for various things. And all of it is an effective once you understand that there are no overt signs, there are no signs, we they call it masking. Now, kids are really, really, really, really good at masking. It's why you can't tell by looking. You can't tell by looking who's being bullied. You can't tell by looking who's struggling to stay alive. And you can't tell by looking who's grieving the loss of a loved one to suicide, or the lack of emotional connection at home. Yes. And there's all kinds of way to die. And it sounds like that's what life was like for you.

Unknown: 00:15:59

It was and you're absolutely correct, Jackie. I never said a word. I've had over 1000s of teachers reach out to me, begging me not to stop, please don't stop, give us some kind of tools give us something so that we know what to look for. And I said, Well, I was the quiet child, they're quiet, they have no voice. They don't want to bring attention to themselves. Because they don't want you to know about their home. They're scared of when they go home. My day was every time the bell rang, if you will, that was one more hour closer to going home. I couldn't concentrate on the homework. People think, Oh, the children are getting D's and F's, they must be not doing well, academically, and I want to say, look deeper, they can't concentrate on the studies. Because every time that clock ticks, that's one more minute closer to going home, where their fear is of not knowing what their home will be that evening when they get home.

Jackie Simmons: 00:17:05

Let's talk about this. My friend Rachel Goldsboro describes what life was like for him having an alcoholic parent and the home. And he said, I was the oldest. We had to be in by six. And we were on that front porch. And we waited until six o'clock, we were not willing to go into that house one minute sooner than we needed to. And we didn't dare come in one minute like we would walk in, and I would assess, Is he drunk? And if so how drunk? If he's angry? If so how angry. And this was his life as a child. And I'm wondering, that was dealing with a volatile, angry alcohol, you unstable. And I know most people say alcoholism is a disease. I think alcohol is one person's way of trying to cope with it the insanity going on in their head. Yes. And so it's a symptom, not an it's not anything other than just a symptom that there's something more going on in my world. But that's my opinion. And I'm entitled just because I'm one of those I attended all those classes, you know, the adult child guide to what's normal and amazing book. And it's for adults. Yes. We want to get this for kids. Yes. What would be the the teenagers guide to what's normal

Unknown: 00:18:47

teenagers guide would be being able to just talk out loud, being able to go into this classroom, whichever counselor our person is putting on the program, be educated, but also be willing to be quiet and listen. If the child needs to talk privately, there would be means for that. But being able to say oh, that the aha moment. That's what's going on in my home. It's It's not me I'm not because one thing about the mental, mentally ill or guardian or parent that has this like I was called DOM every day. I was never so this child not only is every day being told they're not self they have no self worth. So you have to there's a lot of components that would have to happen Jackie in this program. They'd have to bring in the self worth piece. They would have to bring in your you deserve to be on this world. This is just put This illness where it belongs, it's no different than a parent walking in and saying my little boy or girl has a parent that's suffering with cancer. Would it be nice to be able to go into school on sand? Their parent has schizophrenia or bipolar? So have the means.

Jackie Simmons: 00:20:19

What if we normalize illness period?

Unknown: 00:20:22

Yes, I think you're absolutely, absolutely. When when I

Jackie Simmons: 00:20:27

helped construct the suicide risk factor assessment, because that was the first thing people asked. They said, if you're going to do a suicide prevention society, for teenagers, as a parent, I want the checklist I want to know. And I thought that was true. So the first thing we constructed was the suicide risk factor assessment. And along with it, we constructed the why not workbook, so that parents would have something a tool they could use immediately. And what we found out is that parents will avoid that assessment, the same way that they avoid. And it's not their own fault. Because I had to figure this out. It's not a parent's fault that they can't see signs, right. Parents are hard wired their reticular activating system is hard wired with the belief system that my kids, okay. And the school system is hard wired to believe that every kid's okay. Yes. And the reality is, okay is a relative term, it's very, very subjective. We can tell whether a kid shows up at school, but we can't tell whether a kid brings a sense of self with them. Yes. And so the invisible epidemic that I believe is fueling the epidemic of teen suicides is exactly this. It's the erosion of self worth. Based on the inconsistencies in parenting, when a parent is unstable, for whatever reason, and if it's because you're right, if it's because of cancer, there is a whole mechanism in the world, there are walks for this. Well, now there's a walk from mental illness, the walk out of darkness is also a walk about suicide. There's all of these things where they are trying to bring out the fact that illness is illness, as it is a mental illness, guess what, that is still a physical illness. Because we're talking about the biochemistry in the brain, it is still just a physiological occurrence that creates chaos in an environment. Absolutely. So what if we just call it chaos, I call it the medical mess. In my family, we had the medical mass, and it didn't matter whether the doctor trying to address the mass was a psychiatrist, or an orthopedist, it was still a medical mess. And with we could just go to neutral language, these kids would have a fighting chance to get support outside of the home, when they can't find it in the home. And I

Unknown: 00:23:25

think to make it simplify, to go even deeper, Jackie is I kept getting passed in grade school, but I couldn't spell. I don't know what, how that got missed. But just remember, they're not getting help at home. When you send homework home. It's not happening. So when a child there's also a big sign and they can't spell, take a moment. And then when we're doing these programs as these programs, because I feel like it's already done, because I know it's gonna get done, ya know, I always put it my mind is already done. That way we get there. Take a moment. And if the child we have to make it simple, make the words so they understand. Don't stand in front of them and use big words so that they think that you're important, simplify and come down into their terms. And their their language. That's very important, because so many of them will sit there and not even know what some of the words mean.

Jackie Simmons: 00:24:33

Most of the words I mean, I'm going to be really blunt when adults talk to kids, they forget that kids are not simply tiny adults with a good vocabulary. Yeah, there's some people are really gifted at talking with kids, others not so much. And the reality is you cannot go into the home and make an assessment and get a realistic understanding of what's going on. And there have been books written about this The Autobiography of a boy named it a boy called Edie. absolutely horrifying to read. And yeah, it's true that this was a kid who was being raised in a home of a mentally unstable and abused massively mentally and physically. And the world is starting to shift on this, but we are still not catching it early enough. And it's because you can't tell by looking. Right. It's because there's something about our culture. That is Norman Rockwell Saturday evening review, attached. We believe that it is all wonderful and light. And the reality is, there's darkness in these children's lives. Yes. And they can't speak about it because it's their normal. They don't know. The rule. If you see something, say something assumes that a child can discern between what they're experiencing and what's quote, normal, which I think normal is nothing more than a setting on the washing machine and does not apply to people.

Karen Comba: 00:26:24

I think that same thing.

Jackie Simmons: 00:26:25

So we've got a system in place that starts from an assumption that's inaccurate.

Karen Comba: 00:26:31

Yes.

Jackie Simmons: 00:26:33

All right. So we won't fix it. If you believe that there's a possibility of fixing this make comments, share this interview with people, it's going to be up on the your brain on positive podcast. Why? Because the one thing that these kids need are a beacon of positivity so that they have enough contrast to say, wait a minute, we read that this this is what you're you know, this is this is normal. But what about this? And when they ask what about this, believe them the first time because that's not what usually happens. What usually happens is that we dismiss what a child says, oh, it's not that bad. Yes, it is that that? Yes, it is that that a child having night terrors is having terrors. Pay attention to what's going on? Whether you can figure out whether it's inside or outside, is it nature or nurture, quit looking to label it and just bring some stability into a child's life? Today? Whatever you can do will be more than enough. And if I could light a fire under people I would, I'm good at that. Let's give everybody some backbone here. Yes. So if you understand this, if this reaches you, if you've experienced feeling like you don't fit in, you don't belong, you're out of step. And whether it's because you have something that is pulling you into a medical mess out of balance with yourself. That's cool. If it's somebody around you who's being pulled by a medical mess out of balance with themselves. That's also cool. All situations are welcome here. What we want to do is make sure that the world starts getting the message. This is normal. Normal is having a medical mask, physical or mental or emotional or spiritual does not matter where the mess originated. Normal is having a mess that pulls you out of yourself and leaves you feeling adrift alone. That's normal. Once we understand that, we can then start creating the systems that support that bringing that back to them.

Jackie Simmons: 00:29:08

All right, this has been an impromptu live stream. This is an episode of your brain on positive I'm Jackie Semmens. I am your host. We believe that you are creative, capable and resourceful enough to reach for the positive in your life to reach for the next highest best vibration, best expression of you best, most positive you and that it's worth doing. So we'll be exploring more. Stay tuned. Remember to comment and share this episode. Go and subscribe. Get the alerts for when we drop new episodes. And by all means, if you are in the mass and being pulled out of alignment with yourself. Reach out for help. Don't keep it a secret. Break the Silence Nubank find that there's a whole bunch of us around waiting for you.